Mr. Scheele, you’ve stated that you’ll assist those who have fled Ukraine in reintegrating into the work market. Is that something Germany can afford?
Humanitarian aid is the first. When people are ready and desire to work here, they will find a welcoming job market: the federal government reported more than 800,000 job openings in March, with 160,000 to 180,000 new openings posted each month. We require immigration to meet the demand for qualified employees as a result of demographics. And the refugees aren’t stealing jobs from anyone else. That was also not the case during the 2014/2015 refugee crisis.
Is it possible for those who have recently returned from a war to work?
When I consider the images in the media and put myself in their place, I’m not sure if the first thing they want is an integration course schedule.
Only a few hundred refugees have registered with the employment agency in order to be put in a job so far. On the other hand, there appears to be a lot of interest in online job exchanges. Why is that?
Currently, the Federal Agency has no institutional ties to admittance. People are accommodated in accordance with the Asylum Seekers Benefits Act, which is implemented by municipalities. They only interact with us if they come to us on their own initiative or if we visit them at the initial welcome centers and advise them on their job prospects in Germany.
Should the refugees be placed in their old jobs or should “work first” apply to their placement?
During the previous refugee crisis, the objective was to get people back into the work market as quickly as possible. This time, we’d like to provide them information that’s as relevant to their degree as possible, and help them find work that matches their education. On the other hand, if someone comes to us wanting to be able to stand on his or her own two feet and work rapidly, we will not hinder him or her from taking on a position that is perhaps less qualified.
I just got here. So far, Germany has registered 280,000 refugees. The job placement service wants to assist them in finding work… Hannibal Hanschke (photo)
Around 280,000 Ukrainian migrants have been registered by the federal police thus far. The majority of the visitors are women, with half of them being children. Will these individuals have an effect on the labor market?
A few older persons have also been granted permission to depart Ukraine. Not all of the 280,000 people can work in this capacity. We are grateful for everyone, especially given the tremendous demand for competent workers and the severe labor shortage in Germany.
What credentials do people bring to the table?
In international comparisons, the Ukrainian population has a high level of education. We assume that every second refugee has received an academic education, either a scientific education or a bachelor’s degree from a technical school, roughly corresponding to Germany’s dual education system. Women in Ukraine were largely employed in academic, technical, and medical professions, according to our research institute, the IAB. Language skills, on the other hand, are necessary, particularly in higher-skilled industries. The variety of language courses available impacts the success of labor market integration in this regard. It’s also crucial to have access to childcare. Both must be made bigger.
Is it possible to control the recognition of professional qualifications more swiftly than before?
Not only in social and health professions, but also in dual training professions, this is a complicated topic. Regulating this is up to the states or chambers, and it should be a difficult task. It would be ideal if we could accomplish this in Germany more quickly than before.
Many refugees may prefer to return home as soon as possible. Do German courses and post-secondary education make social and economic sense?
We’ll probably know more in three months about whether or not folks can return. There will be a strong yearning to return if Ukraine’s national statehood is safeguarded. There is no such thing as a silver bullet. The trick now is to make excellent judgments, even if we don’t know how to proceed, and to choose a friendly culture that provides everyone with the required skills and a strong start in their career, regardless of how long they want to stay. And if someone receives an education here and then returns, it will not be detrimental to the devastated country if a well-educated individual contributes to its reconstruction.
How do we keep refugees out of the low-wage sector and from working for companies that don’t pay the minimum wage or follow health and safety regulations?
Refugees are particularly vulnerable to shady work opportunities. Controls by the government are crucial. Of course, as an employment service, we will not position job seekers in such places, but rather in decent jobs.
Refugees now have direct access to the job market as a result of the EU’s “Mass Influx Directive.” Is there a lesson to be learned from the 2015 financial crisis?
In recent years, the integration has also performed admirably. Around half of the refugees who have arrived in Germany since 2013 have found work within five years of arriving. More than half of the refugees working in the United States are professionals or academics. The statistics also demonstrate that assimilation was quicker than it had been in earlier refugee migrations, such as during the Yugoslav war. Yes, with rapid access to the labor market, integrating persons who wish to work in Germany will be easier.
Is the Skilled Immigration Act, which was passed in 2020, also beneficial?
That doesn’t help in the current scenario; we don’t recruit refugees; they come to us out of necessity. It is necessary to distinguish between refugee flows and targeted immigration of competent people. It remains to be seen how effective the law is. It went into effect on March 1st, 2020, and we closed the doors on March 16th owing to the epidemic. However, you must go in order to coordinate skilled worker immigration. Nonetheless, we have recently reached agreements with nations such as Indonesia, Mexico, and the Indian state of Kerala for the deployment of trained workers. We were able to recruit about 3,000 specialists from third nations as a result of this and other partnership arrangements.
Isn’t there a scarcity of skilled people in that area?
We only advertise in nations where there isn’t a severe scarcity of skilled individuals in the fields in question. Fair mobility is our goal. A stable immigration system necessitates a welcoming culture that considers the entire family. People will go if this does not happen.
Long-term unemployment was one of the issues you intended to raise at your office. The number is now 955,000, which is significantly higher than when you first started.
We’ve come a long way since the pandemic. Our plan is to collaborate more closely with local government institutions to provide a comprehensive package of services for long-term unemployed people, ranging from job centers to debt counseling. And it essentially worked. In other circumstances, we had less than 700,000 long-term unemployed in 2019. Then came Corona, and the first and most enduring effect was the loss of jobs for assistance and semi-skilled workers. This is quite aggravating. We must now endeavor to reclaim what we have gained.
Even if job seekers violate their obligations, no sanctions are being implemented.
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Hubertus Heil, the Minister of Labor, has declared that the Hartz IV sanctions will be totally lifted by the end of the year. What are your thoughts on the matter?
Endless sanctions have only one effect: we are more prone to lose contact with the unemployed. However, in a 2019 ruling, the Federal Constitutional Court effectively authorized us to lower the usual rate if someone consistently fails to cooperate. In theory, this will remain the case. The issue of sanctions, however, does not affect 95% of individuals since they desire to work.
They are opposed to a universal basic income. Isn’t the projected citizens’ income a long way off?
Yes, everyone, including myself and you, would receive an unconditional basic income. This would mean that those who receive basic security would get extra help without having to pay for it. The state would shirk its responsibilities to assist them out of bad situations if they were given 1,000 euros. Citizens’ income, on the other hand, assists people in finding work by providing guidance and training. In this sense, the government takes responsibility for its actions.
You spoke out against extending the special restrictions on short-term work benefits at the end of last year. They are now good till the end of June. Is this justified when firms like Daimler, BMW, and Adidas, who have relied on state subsidies, pay large dividends to their shareholders?
I understand your dissatisfaction, yet this is legal, albeit unethical. We follow the law exactly as it is written. With the crisis in Ukraine, sanctions against Russia, and interrupted supply chains, it’s safe to assume that the issue of short-term jobs will continue to be a problem for a long time.
You have three months left in your current position. What advise would you give Andrea Nahles, your successor?
There is no public advice. When you’re on the phone or eating, you occasionally tell each other something when they ask.